sanguin mass

Sanguiin Mass has long been a dream of the former Primus of Dark Avalon
Gregory Kytis when I took over as the Primus of Dark Avaloon Gregory asked me to someday fulfill his dream I never thought of posting a Sanguin Mass on line till I came across a posting made by Eclecta in the AVA forum the view expressed in the purposed guide line for Sanguim Mass were conceved by Gregory Kytis,Maygain Kytis,and my self Charles Ray Singleton Jr aka Dark Prince

any one up for a debate?

B.L.O.O.D.

B-- BLOOD IS THE GIVER OF LIFE
L-- LOVE YOUR DONER FOR LIFE WOULD BE UNBARABLE WITH YOUR
DONER
O--OBSERVE YOUR DONER: IS YOUR DONER HEALTHY? IS YOUR DONER
HAPPY? DOES YOUR DONER NEED ANYTHING?
O--OBAY THE BLACK VEIL
D--DONERS ARE OUR SALVATION,OUR SECURITY,OUR HAVEN

SANGUIN COMMANDMENTS:

1---BE CAUSIOUS TRUST IS EARNED NOT GIVEN
2---REMEMBER WHAT YOU ARE,WHO YOU ARE,DON'T ALOW YOUR SELF
TO GIVE IN TO THIS WORLDS PRECONCEVED IDEAS OF WHAT WE
ARE
3---BE TRUE TO YOUR NATURE BUT DON'T ALOW YOUR NATURE TO TAKE
OVER YOUR SENCES
4---LIVE LIFE TO ITS FULLEST POTENTAL AS IF TODAY WERE THE LAST
DON'T LET FEAR HOLD YOU BACK
5---NEVER DENY YOUR DARKNESS, EMBRACE DARKNESS AND USE IT BUT
DON'T LET DARKNESS USE YOU
6---ASK BEFORE TAKEING ENERGY"THOU SHALL NOT STEEL"
7---YOU ARE A DARK GOD/GODDESS IN A WORLD OF SHALLOW MINDED
SIMPLETONS
8---DO WHAT YOU WILL BUT LIVE BY THE LAWS OF THE MUNDANE
9---NEVER STOP LEARNING ONLY THROUGH KNOLEDGE CAN WE AS
SANGUIN CONTINUE EVOLVEING SPIRTUALY,MENTALY,WORLDLY
10-NEVER THINK YOUR SELF BETTER THAN YOUR FELLOW SANGUIN
WE ARE A FAMILY ACT LIKE ONE
11-NEVER ASUME YOU KNOW "THE ANSWER" YOU DO HOW EVER KNOW
"A ANSWER"
12-NEVER TAKE IT FOR GRANIT THAT EVERYTHING IS KOSHER WE AS
SANGUIN MUST GUARD AGENST BEING OVER CONFIDENT
13-HELP YOUR FELLOW SANGUIN DON'T HURT THEM ONE SANGUIN
CAN AND WILL MAKE ADIFFERENCE

Very Well thought out indeed

_________________
Rev JP Vanir theUVUP ChrstVampyre
http://www.myspace.com/chrstvampyre
Founder High Priest: TempleUVUP.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TempleUVUP
http://groups.myspace.com/TempleUVUP
TempleUVUP Book 1
http://www.lulu.com/content/818414
http://www.cafepress.com/templeuvup

Thank You

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

Darkest Blessings Dark Prince,

I do like most of that. I must confess I am not a fan of the Black Veil as I feel it is much too close to white wolf's VtM. I'm not trying to debate your beliefs with you as those belong to you and are yours to do with as you so choose. If it were left to the Black Veil, I myself would not be allowed to be...since I am disabled (wheelchair bound.)

I am very glad to see that others feel as I do. Long have I felt that even PSIs should have a donor and ask permission to feed. I feel no feeding type is above the other.

Very well said and put!

_________________
Ama Thi'ess
4th Chair Just'e Magistrate De Vampires
High Priestess & Web Mistress for TempleUVUP

thank you with in my community we accept all no matter what they believe or practice sanguin mass is still just a work in process nothing is how should i say it set in stone but i think most with in my community are ready to begin mass one of the things that we are working out is on what day to hold mass

for my self i feel that every day is the same unless it is a holliday my friend Maygain and i were thinking about possably a monthly mass on a full moon night

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

Basically they created it because of vampire killers giving us a bad name and that is why they even are trying to get rid of dring blood all together...

father todd calls it canibalism???!!! WTF

_________________
Rev JP Vanir theUVUP ChrstVampyre
http://www.myspace.com/chrstvampyre
Founder High Priest: TempleUVUP.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TempleUVUP
http://groups.myspace.com/TempleUVUP
TempleUVUP Book 1
http://www.lulu.com/content/818414
http://www.cafepress.com/templeuvup

This is the creed I go by and murder against the law and who am I to judge so that is not acceptable either cough cough

OUR CREED: (you dont have to belief everything but this is what we believe):<br><br>

~As Vampyres We should know the difference between are Donors or other
human friends and our other Vampyre companions Being as we are half human half
demigod, Angel, or Demon (not as the Christian Demons being evil but Being
of Darkness) or better known as Dhampir and We are above them on the food chain but
we also must respect those who give to use of there own will and murder is not our way in
the human realm...

~As Vampyes We should never be ashamed of what we are but embrace our Darkness...

~As Vampyres We should Know that We each have the same abilities needs hunger though some are stronger than others
and some prefer only some of them...

~As Vampyres We all have A Vampyre Soul, live each life as a Vampyre, and the Vampyre soul will never eternally rest...

~As Vampyres We all should not try to make ourselves sick by starving ourselves because we think it is bad to
borrow energy or life force as they all will get it back and will not suffer as much as we do for the lack of it...

_________________
Rev JP Vanir theUVUP ChrstVampyre
http://www.myspace.com/chrstvampyre
Founder High Priest: TempleUVUP.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TempleUVUP
http://groups.myspace.com/TempleUVUP
TempleUVUP Book 1
http://www.lulu.com/content/818414
http://www.cafepress.com/templeuvup

	chrstvampyre wrote:
	Basically they created it because of vampire killers giving us a bad name and that is why they even are trying to get rid of dring blood all together... father todd calls it canibalism???!!! WTF

I feeel pitty for the fool that tells me to by face that i can no longer drink blood I'm a member of the ava forum this topic was brung up by Merticus this is what was posted:

Anyone up for a debate...

Revised, February 23rd, 2007

© Copyright 1997-2007 The Sanguinarium, all rights reserved. The Black Veil is a trademark of SABRETOOTH. Permission granted to reproduce in while without modification.

...there are two types of laws; just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws...a just law is a code [that] squares with the moral law...rooted in eternal law and natural law.
- from Letter from Birmingham City Jail by Dr. Martin Luther King

This is the ONLY edition of the Veil endorsed by the original author; SABRETOOTH and is the foundation of ethics for the Sanguinarium. Previous editions have high merits; however, they have not fully captured or expressed in words how to avoid potential liabilities in the tangible Dayside realities of the mundane world. These realities must be first addressed in order to ensure the security and prosperity of the Family. Those Strigoi Vii or Black Swans who violate these laws within the Family may, at least, face banishment or permanent excommunication. In reality they are betraying themselves by giving up their own opportunity to achieve Zhepr through their own actions.

We Strigoi Vii are socially responsible individuals, and the consequences of Our actions may have various, often negative, repercussions as We become more visible to the Dayside world. Those who proudly bear the Legacy Ankh close to their hearts, be they Strigoi Vii or Black Swan, make the statement that they are upholding the Black Veil. These acts are innate common sense for the responsible members of Our Family. The Black Veil gives us the freedom and foundation to be powerful by avoiding issues that may get in Our way.

TENET I: SECRETS

Secrets protect and bind Us to the foundation of these Laws. Our Mysteries are Our own and those who wish to explore them should seek them out alone, through personal initiative and action. As a sleight of hand magician would employ the principle of “hidden in plain sight,” so does the Living Vampyre. Honor one’s choice of privacy, for example, in regards to their mundane identity, and never disclose any personal information without explicit permission. This law is also extended between Vampyres. Let the individual make the choice to reveal even the most basic facts of themselves, such as being Strigoi Vii, their level of initiation, the mundane personal information, etc., to others.

Public discussion of Strigoi Vii and the Mysteries with the media, in public forums, or with those not of the Blood or Black Swan is an obvious violation of this law. At all times speak only for yourself and not for the whole of the Family. Leave that to those select members of the Priesthood who are properly trained in public relations. Never share the contents of the Sanguinomicon with those who have not read Our Mysteries. Let Seekers solve the Mysteries on their own.

TENET II: HONOR MUNDANE LAW

Adherence to the laws of Our local governments, even if We disagree with them, is essential to provide Us the freedom to explore Our Nightside nature. If We disagree with mundane laws, We must strive to be individually and socially responsible enough to change them through mundane legal means. Our Laws are Our own!

TENET III: THE METAPHOR OF BLOOD

Strigoi Vii view Blood as a symbol and metaphor of the subtle life-force, better known as prana, chi or ki. We extend this Blood metaphor also to symbolize the ties of the greater Strigoi Vii Family. We are not wanna-bes, seduced by the Glamour of fiction and Hollywood, who consume physical blood. To satisfy Our spiritual hunger We know other more refined and higher forms of feeding, which We find much more efficient, and which sustain Our Mysteries. This creates a clear avoidance of legal liabilities and health risks such as blood-borne diseases including Hepatitis, Syphilis, HIV/AIDS, etc. Strigoi Vii simply cannot tolerate blood drinking as We, Living Vampyres, do not drink physical human blood for the purpose of experiencing Our Mysteries and fueling Zhep’r.

TENET IV: RESPONSIBILITY FOR MINORS

We must honor the need for minors to establish a skeptical, objective, and rational Dayside foundation before exploring and embracing the Nightside. Those who have not reached the age of majority (eighteen in the United States) must not be permitted or encouraged to explore Our Mysteries, participate in ritual, or enter Our Sanctums under any conditions. Thus no minor shall ever be involved in Strigoi Vii, either privately or publicly, until they come of age.

TENET V: CURRENT & QUEST

The Current of Elorath is the “Blood” which is the signature of those of Our Family. The collective duty of all Strigoi Vii is the Quest, which is Our collective duty. We must search out those lost souls with Strigoi Vii potential who are not yet aware of Our Family. However, never force a potential to follow Our way, as Vampyres are not rebels, nor are We mindless followers. Always use one of the proven tools of supporting the Quest as to not degrade Our Mysteries. Give the Seeker the hint and let them feel the Calling and come if and when they are ready. Never support or join an organization that opposes the Family Mysteries. Never enter into debates with mundanes or try and convert them or see Our ways, as it is in conflict with the Glamour and a waste of time and energy. Betraying the Quest is not only betraying the Family, it is betraying yourself.

ENDORSEMENTS:

“The Black Veil, Strigoi Vii edition is the perfect example of what Guidelines should be. It completely covers both the Nightside and Dayside responsibilities that each of us holds as Adults. And I, Dragan Dracul, fully Support and Endorse the Black Veil, Strigoi Vii edition.”
~Dragan Dracul, Atlantis North Halo (South Carolina)

”YES! I endorse this edition of the Strigoi ViiBlack Veil, Finally a version I feel relates to everything which should have been expressed already in previous editions.”
~Lord Kane, Neckros Halo (Eastern Ohio)

“The newest edition of the Black Veil, Strigoi Vii edition is to the Sanguinarium as Natural Law, as codified by Aristotle is to the foundation of societies as a whole. This effort to produce a document, both clear and concise has met with great success. It can be viewed as a strong foundation for all interested in the success and safe growth of the Community at large.”
~Zomas Beckett, Gotham Halo (New York Metro area)

“The Black Veil Strigoi Vii edition is a good example of keeping it short and simple. It addresses all the points it should, is clear, direct and based on common sense. Therefore I Morikell of the Halo of Xion hereby endorse and uphold the Black Veil and enter into its new Pact.”
~Morikell, Xion Halo (Amsterdam, Netherlands)

"I like, it is very direct and easy to inform the readers and interested peoples about our natures and society.. Thus I Lord A, from Noir Haven Theatro dos Vampiros of São Paulo, Brazil fully endorse and join the Pact of the new Black Veil."
~Lord A, (San Paulo, Brazil)

"This is clear and everything is said. I endorse the Black Veil and I'll respect the pact. Thank you for giving me the chance to be what I really am."
~Sweevil, Lutèce Halo (Paris, France)

“I have been Mradu upholding the covenants of the Black Veil in this community for many years, these amendments are much needed and wholeheartedly endorsed by myself, and my Nadja by proxy. Well done, these were long overdue.”
~Azrael Frost, The Draconian Prime, Sunset Halo (South Florida, USA)

“Ascertain integrity, seek great stature of character by holding to your virtues and duties, realizing that the act of striving towards these honorable ideals ennobles the spirit, and elevates the individual. I, Madame X of the Dreaming, strongly recommend adherence to the fundamental ideals expressed within The Black Veil Strigoi Vii Edition; they are the sword and shield of our Community.”
~ Madame X, Atlantis Halo, (Savannah, GA)

"I feel that the new Strigoi Vii edition of the Black Veil is a very positive and large step forward. Mundane law is something which needed to be addressed, and this edition does so. Furthermore this edition is much more intuitive than past versions. I, Sekhethsis of the Kheprian Progressionism movement, fully endorse the Strigoi Vii edition of the Black Veil."
~Sekhethsis, Trillium Halo (Toronto, Canada)

this what i posted on the matter:

prince dax

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 489

Location: brinson ga
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:20 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been watching from the shadows and thinking a great deal about this new ideas and beliefs when it comes to blood drinking
this is my stand on it the day we as a whole condem thoes with in the community for continueing to drink blood we are no better than ppl like hitler and other comunist type leaders

At Dark Avalon we have had many discusions about this new view on blood drinking we see the danger involved with pathogens but we also have enough common sence to see that ppl with in the community have a right to make there own decision i have been aske to mentor thoes willing to learn the elemental feeding tech.
Maygain is curently learning the tech. inorder to help me teach the others

the day we forget the fact that we are all unique and have the right to be proud of our personal preferences is the day a community stops being a community and becomes a police state

I still hold true to what i posted in the ava forum
I've never met this farther todd nor do i know what he looks like but if i ever get the unfortunate honer of meeting him i just might show him just what canibalism realy is

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

chrstvampyre wrote:

This is the creed I go by and murder against the law and who am I to judge so that is not acceptable either cough cough

OUR CREED: (you dont have to belief everything but this is what we believe):<br><br>

~As Vampyres We should know the difference between are Donors or other
human friends and our other Vampyre companions Being as we are half human half
demigod, Angel, or Demon (not as the Christian Demons being evil but Being
of Darkness) or better known as Dhampir and We are above them on the food chain but
we also must respect those who give to use of there own will and murder is not our way in
the human realm...

~As Vampyes We should never be ashamed of what we are but embrace our Darkness...

~As Vampyres We should Know that We each have the same abilities needs hunger though some are stronger than others
and some prefer only some of them...

~As Vampyres We all have A Vampyre Soul, live each life as a Vampyre, and the Vampyre soul will never eternally rest...

~As Vampyres We all should not try to make ourselves sick by starving ourselves because we think it is bad to
borrow energy or life force as they all will get it back and will not suffer as much as we do for the lack of it...

I can see the wisdom in these words and i fallow it but i also try to fallow the creed of darkness as well

Creed Of Darkness ~

Darkness is for the strong, for you shall inherit the earth. The light shall inherit the yoke. Darkness is for the powerful, for you shall be revered among men. Cursed is the light for they shall be blotted out. Darkness is for the bold, for you shall be masters of the world. Cursed are the light which teaches lies for truth and truth for lies, for they are the abomination. Behold the crucifix - what does it mean? Pallid incompetence hanging on a tree.

Too long the dead hand has been permitted to encumber living thought. Too long right and wrong, good and evil have been inverted by false prophets. No creed should be accepted upon authority of a divine nature. All and any religion must be put to the question. No moral dogma taken for granted, no standard of measurement defied.

There is nothing sacred in moral codes. Like wooden idols they are human work.

He that is slow to believe in anything and everything is of great understanding. for belief in false principals is the beginning of all unwisdom.

Hate your emenies with a whole heart. If one smites you on the cheek smash him in return. If one tries to injure you or one that walks with you destroy them. The preservation of yourself and those who walk with you is the HIGHEST LAW!

Give blow for blow, scorn for scorn, and doom to avenge attempted doom. Make of yourself a terror to your adversary that should he survive you, he will cross you never more. Thus you will make yourself respected in all the paths of your life. Your spirit shall live not in an intangible paradise, but in the minds and souls of those you have taken.

By: ~Immortal Darkness~

I didn't come up with this one but i see some truth in these words as well

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

I voted no that it is a bad idea, just because to me, as I am a pranic, I don't believe feeding should be a public "feast" type of deal. feeding to me is very private thing, and very sacred, and is not something I'll share with a mundane or a "human" (non kin or vamp person) I most often feed from my SO, whom is kin/vamp as well. I choose not to take blood from the mundane or animal because like i said in my intro post it does not sustain me.
I have family I would give blood too and there is family I would take from if my SO did not want to donate to me. That has been an ongoing issue with us lately, though he did give me a small bit not so long ago.

I only need to feed on blood about once every 3 months, and yes normally on a full moon night. I needed to feed more when i was younger in my awakening but now it is at a 3 month mark. I can go without it, but to do so is to wear my body thin, both physical and spiritual body wise.

I also am not a Black veil fan or a fan of the OSV order. Todd is not a real vampyre, he is about as ritualistic as a limp piece of wet tiolet paper, and he allows in "neophytes" who are not even true vampyric, who follow OSV because they think it is "cool looking". I am not judging, I have been among OSV and they have left a bad taste in my mouth.
Todd is just showing his true colors, saying that blood drinking is cannibalism (for it is, too eat of the flesh and all..) when someone can no longer hack a certain facet of a life style
then they are quick to denounce it. tell me, how can they worship the vampire deity elorath, who drank blood as well etc...if they do not drink it themselves.

Also the new veil states if you do not follow them you are againest them and they will "sin nomine" you... well gee willijers bob!

A Load of hoo.

I walk in the path of twilight though i realize that sometimes one must embrace both their dark and their light to learn more of themselves as a soul, and this has been true of myself.

My beliefs are diff than most (thank god lol) and hopefully will not offend anyone here, they are only my opinion, I have never been one who went vampires, yes! Blood festivals and pvc banquets and gathers oh my!" I don't get the life style, my vampyrism is much more about spirituality.

_________________
Yara Nightshade
http://freewebs.com/yaranightshade
Forums:
http://nightsether.forumwise.com
The dark Coven network
http://darkcoven.ning.com

yaranightshade wrote:

I voted no that it is a bad idea, just because to me, as I am a pranic, I don't believe feeding should be a public "feast" type of deal. feeding to me is very private thing, and very sacred, and is not something I'll share with a mundane or a "human" (non kin or vamp person) I most often feed from my SO, whom is kin/vamp as well. I choose not to take blood from the mundane or animal because like i said in my intro post it does not sustain me.
I have family I would give blood too and there is family I would take from if my SO did not want to donate to me. That has been an ongoing issue with us lately, though he did give me a small bit not so long ago.

I only need to feed on blood about once every 3 months, and yes normally on a full moon night. I needed to feed more when i was younger in my awakening but now it is at a 3 month mark. I can go without it, but to do so is to wear my body thin, both physical and spiritual body wise.

I also am not a Black veil fan or a fan of the OSV order. Todd is not a real vampyre, he is about as ritualistic as a limp piece of wet tiolet paper, and he allows in "neophytes" who are not even true vampyric, who follow OSV because they think it is "cool looking". I am not judging, I have been among OSV and they have left a bad taste in my mouth.
Todd is just showing his true colors, saying that blood drinking is cannibalism (for it is, too eat of the flesh and all..) when someone can no longer hack a certain facet of a life style
then they are quick to denounce it. tell me, how can they worship the vampire deity elorath, who drank blood as well etc...if they do not drink it themselves.

Also the new veil states if you do not follow them you are againest them and they will "sin nomine" you... well gee willijers bob!

A Load of hoo.

I walk in the path of twilight though i realize that sometimes one must embrace both their dark and their light to learn more of themselves as a soul, and this has been true of myself.

My beliefs are diff than most (thank god lol) and hopefully will not offend anyone here, they are only my opinion, I have never been one who went vampires, yes! Blood festivals and pvc banquets and gathers oh my!" I don't get the life style, my vampyrism is much more about spirituality.

to each there own beliefe and practus i am the primus for our community i have a lot of pull with in the community i dont think any one will be sin nomine me
in out community we believe that it is your choice to keep dringing blood or find other ways to survive this practus is the only way to truely be united

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

I understand what you are saying. I remember once long ago in another place vampyres came together for sanguine mass on full moon nights. For those that did not have mates to sustain them, they drank from the priests of our combined houses. However, not everyone back then had the right idea in mind, for the most part they did, and I've decided to write somewhat of a book on the tradition of such.

Just in this life, If not everyone is of the blood per say, and is just a groupie or whatever of vampires, it could have bad consequences, I assume that everyone in your group is true Blood and isn't human or "a groupie fan" however, like OSV has in amoung them.

That is also just the thing. OSV is not powerful enough to have such authority to sin nomine a cardboard puppet. They only have power to do so if we think they do, because they sound so "regal and or royal". The OVC and VC is quickly seeing the true colors of OSV and is questioning their position in the community at last.

You've nothing to fear my friend. They are beneath the rest of us. Not trying to sound vain, its just the way it is.

Some time ago I had heard of a dark prince having a blood ball in canada or something, are you the same one? You are in georgia like me, i believe it said on your profile, its cool to meet more ga vampires. *nods*

_________________
Yara Nightshade
http://freewebs.com/yaranightshade
Forums:
http://nightsether.forumwise.com
The dark Coven network
http://darkcoven.ning.com

yaranightshade wrote:

I understand what you are saying. I remember once long ago in another place vampyres came together for sanguine mass on full moon nights. For those that did not have mates to sustain them, they drank from the priests of our combined houses. However, not everyone back then had the right idea in mind, for the most part they did, and I've decided to write somewhat of a book on the tradition of such.

Just in this life, If not everyone is of the blood per say, and is just a groupie or whatever of vampires, it could have bad consequences, I assume that everyone in your group is true Blood and isn't human or "a groupie fan" however, like OSV has in amoung them.

That is also just the thing. OSV is not powerful enough to have such authority to sin nomine a cardboard puppet. They only have power to do so if we think they do, because they sound so "regal and or royal". The OVC and VC is quickly seeing the true colors of OSV and is questioning their position in the community at last.

You've nothing to fear my friend. They are beneath the rest of us. Not trying to sound vain, its just the way it is.

Some time ago I had heard of a dark prince having a blood ball in canada or something, are you the same one? You are in georgia like me, i believe it said on your profile, its cool to meet more ga vampires. *nods*

i'm not the same dark prince and yes i live in ga( brinson ga) as far as the OSV goes i think it might be time for the community as a hole to take a stand
on this matter and everyong with in our community is of the blood but there is a few honary members that are not of the blood they are members because they have helped us so much over the years and they are with in my little circle of writers

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

I think the entire community who disagrees with the principles of the OSV tradition, group and "bible" and veil(s) should stand up with their voices and denounce them as role players and posers. Everyone should unite as one and put something on their pages about denouncing them as an official group or such, and sin nomine their butts, then they would be without honor and without name except among themselves who thought them still a good idea.

that is what i call "flesh vampirism" being a vampire in the flesh only and not of the spirit.
For looks or popularity and status in other words.

_________________
Yara Nightshade
http://freewebs.com/yaranightshade
Forums:
http://nightsether.forumwise.com
The dark Coven network
http://darkcoven.ning.com

yaranightshade wrote:

I think the entire community who disagrees with the principles of the OSV tradition, group and "bible" and veil(s) should stand up with their voices and denounce them as role players and posers. Everyone should unite as one and put something on their pages about denouncing them as an official group or such, and sin nomine their butts, then they would be without honor and without name except among themselves who thought them still a good idea.

that is what i call "flesh vampirism" being a vampire in the flesh only and not of the spirit.
For looks or popularity and status in other words.

good point but thinking in a way like this in the end will only tear apart the community this the way i see it:

with in the vampire community as a hole different beliefs and practuses are comeing to the surface kind-a like a different religion with in the community
some of us believe in the use of blood others do not. that is why i endorce sanguin mass if you think about it it is a religion and a way of life

the OSV has a place with in the community but they do not have the right to tell others what they should believe and practus probaly what will happen in the near future is the community will open there eyes to the big pic (i hope) I have spent a lot of time just sitting back and waching what has been going on with in the community as a hole about a year to be honest and what i mentioned is the conclusion i have come to

i run a forum my self i have posted a lot of my beliefs there on topics such as the v-5 virus ,turning and other vamp related topics here is the linkk if you cart to join
http://darkprince.forumwise.com/

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

But OSV and todd and many others have hurt the community. I spoke about this topic on my forum...

http://nightsether.forumwise.com It services my website, within sacred night

_________________
Yara Nightshade
http://freewebs.com/yaranightshade
Forums:
http://nightsether.forumwise.com
The dark Coven network
http://darkcoven.ning.com

	yaranightshade wrote:
	But OSV and todd and many others have hurt the community. I spoke about this topic on my forum... http://nightsether.forumwise.com It services my website, within sacred night

yes they have hurt the community this i agree with you on but is we treat them as out cast and call them posers and sin nomine them we all would become them only if we realist that there is a place for both beliefs can the vampire community truely be united don't get me wrong i totaly agree with your ideas but i have learned through my persional mistakes to take a step back and look at any situation from a neautral point and decide what to do

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

I don't mean to say there is anything wrong with their belief system. I have similar beliefs that is presented in the OSV tradition. I know who Elorath is, perhaps more than they do, what I am saying has nothing to do with their belief system.

What I have pointed out is what Todd himself has done. he has done a plethora of things that goes against his community and ours, and those who follow him, are the 'same" more or less.
That is why I say take a stand against them (OSV) because of what Todd has done, said and written to get OSV and his other publications where it is today. Sure, let them not drink blood if they want too. I don't drink it all the time either, and not from a sanguinarian point of view either.

What he is, what he does, disgusts my spirit, and that is what I am speaking of.

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yaranightshade wrote:

I don't mean to say there is anything wrong with their belief system. I have similar beliefs that is presented in the OSV tradition. I know who Elorath is, perhaps more than they do, what I am saying has nothing to do with their belief system.

What I have pointed out is what Todd himself has done. he has done a plethora of things that goes against his community and ours, and those who follow him, are the 'same" more or less.
That is why I say take a stand against them (OSV) because of what Todd has done, said and written to get OSV and his other publications where it is today. Sure, let them not drink blood if they want too. I don't drink it all the time either, and not from a sanguinarian point of view either.

What he is, what he does, disgusts my spirit, and that is what I am speaking of.

i see i understand now time for a restructer of leadership

_________________
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I understand what you mean (all of you) because, you see in France the only "american vampire leader" (lets call him that way) who has crossed the ocean for now is Father Todd.

	Quote:
	Todd is just showing his true colors, saying that blood drinking is cannibalism (for it is, too eat of the flesh and all..) when someone can no longer hack a certain facet of a life style then they are quick to denounce it.

	Quote:
	the OSV has a place with in the community but they do not have the right to tell others what they should believe and practus

I fully agree with that.

I mean, I don't have anything against him, he is the good guy to share a drink with, but thats about it...

As he has himself many times before drunk blood and decided after that it was not a good thing to do, why would he forbid others to do so and to come to the same conclusion (or not) by themselves ?

He told me once that the vampire way is a lonely path, so I guess he doesn't have to think instead of the others.

I am not a member of the OSV (and sure will never be) as I don't agree with their system.

I only hope that there will be more American Vampire leader in France soon, so "beginners" have another way of seeing things than only through the OSV...

_________________
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I give you props DarkPrince for giving a good insight on how to treat a donor. Kinda sad when you run into a vamp the does not get that.

I voted yes for to me Blood is good even though most of the time i feed on the Astral plane, my gf and I both feed off of each other on the Astral plane but she does something i cant do and that is she goes to a Blood bank and gets Blood and drinks it when she needs it, she is Very powerful i can tell but much of her power is untapped, she is also preganent astrally with my baby so im so happy.

Hmmm. I don't believe in astral pregnancy but that is my experience and my belief to hold.

I have heard you can go drink blood from blood banks, but that to me would be a very empty form of feeding and a dangerous way to feed as well. That doesn't make you powerful at all. If you're into vampirism to make you powerful you will burn out quick and be over it in a couple of years.

Vampyres can get diseases - and feeding from blood from a blood bank (Not to mention it takes a nurse or doctor or hospital staff to get BLOOD from a blood bank) would and could make you sick and is not very smart.

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Perce Coeur wrote:

I understand what you mean (all of you) because, you see in France the only "american vampire leader" (lets call him that way) who has crossed the ocean for now is Father Todd.

	Quote:
	Todd is just showing his true colors, saying that blood drinking is cannibalism (for it is, too eat of the flesh and all..) when someone can no longer hack a certain facet of a life style then they are quick to denounce it.

	Quote:
	the OSV has a place with in the community but they do not have the right to tell others what they should believe and practus

I fully agree with that.

I mean, I don't have anything against him, he is the good guy to share a drink with, but thats about it...

As he has himself many times before drunk blood and decided after that it was not a good thing to do, why would he forbid others to do so and to come to the same conclusion (or not) by themselves ?

He told me once that the vampire way is a lonely path, so I guess he doesn't have to think instead of the others.

I am not a member of the OSV (and sure will never be) as I don't agree with their system.

I only hope that there will be more American Vampire leader in France soon, so "beginners" have another way of seeing things than only through the OSV...

Are there any France vampyre leaders there? True ones, and not those who follow todd etc? I have heard of the "meetings in paris" There was a big to do with that last year, its where Todd was impersonated by someone else of the Order and said person was black listed. Seems like that person filled in for todd because todd didn't make it to his own meeting! lol

He is a big joke. It will take some time, but we can begin to break the toehold of the OSV.

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	Guardian84 wrote:
	I give you props DarkPrince for giving a good insight on how to treat a donor. Kinda sad when you run into a vamp the does not get that.

thank you Guardian i treat all my doners as if they were me with out them my life would truely be hell

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

	Dracarius wrote:
	I voted yes for to me Blood is good even though most of the time i feed on the Astral plane, my gf and I both feed off of each other on the Astral plane but she does something i cant do and that is she goes to a Blood bank and gets Blood and drinks it when she needs it, she is Very powerful i can tell but much of her power is untapped, she is also preganent astrally with my baby so im so happy.

I go to blood banks to but honestly i like my doners better it is more persional that way

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference

Regardless how hard it is to achieve.

I do not associate with groups that try to assume control of my person and decisions. This is one reason I no longer associate with the TOV.

IMHO, I consider Father Todd to be no better than the TOV- they are "cult leaders" who are obsessed with taking and retaining power. That does not speak of healthy community to me.

I am of the mindset that they need to be watched carefully and if they settle down and behave like reasonable adults- live and let live. However, should they attempt to seize control, they should be brought down like diseased Rhino. As they intend to spread their illness throughout our community.

As a wise man once said- those who sacrifice freedoms for security deserve neither freedom nor security.

As individuals, we have an inherent right to practice our ways and beliefs without the oppression of others. As long as we break no Law of Man, our morals and ethics should be our only guide.

This is all simply my opinion- YMMV.

Lady Ravyn

i have found that the only true power is found with in our selves only we as individuals can truely decide the out come of things to come the choice is ours to make and ours alone we are eather a leader or fallower

_________________
help other in this life time don't hurt them
one man or woman can and will make a difference